My Best Negro League Roster

A friend of mine who reads this blog called me up the other day. He suggested I post what was, in my opinion, the best Negro League team. I went into a long discourse about why that wasn’t possible because of lack of stats and collaborating info and anything else I could come up with to get out of it. He finally cut me off with a simple, “Wing it.” So for the edification of anyone who happens to run across this, and to cap a long group of Negro League posts, here’s my list of the best Negro League players, with appropriate caveats (You knew those were coming, didn’t you?).

First, I took only guys who played the majority of their careers in the Negro Leagues. In other words guys like Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby were out, as were Hank Aaron and Ernie Banks. Second, I did a 25 man roster with a manager and an owner, and a couple of special add ons. I included 2 players at each infield position, 6 outfielders, 3 catchers, and 8 pitchers (at least two of which had to be left-handed). I know that almost no Negro League team ever actually had 25 men on its roster and that if they did they weren’t aligned as I’ve aligned my team. But this is the way I wanted to do it. I have an aversion to comparing players in the pre-mound era with those whose career is mostly after the advent of the mound and the 60’6″ pitching distance.  I simply think the game is so different you can’t compare players (feel free to disagree). That led to a real problem for me, Frank Grant. I think he is probably one of the half-dozen or so greatest black players ever, but that’s unquantifiable to me. So I had to leave him out, and wish I didn’t.

So here we go. All players are listed alphabetically by position. That means there is no indication that I think the guy listed first is better, although he may be a lot better. Don’t expect a lot of surprises, and keep the snickers to yourselves.

Catcher: Josh Gibson, Biz Mackey, Louis Santop. This was actually pretty easy. There seems to be a consensus between statheads, historians, and old Negro League players that these three were head and shoulders above the other catchers in Negro League play. Fleet Walker was also a catcher, but I don’t think he was the quality of these three and he also fails to meet the post-mound criteria. Sorry, Fleet.

1st Base: Buck Leonard, Mule Suttles. There were two problems here. The first was the necessity of leaving out Buck O’Neill. I don’t suppose there is a more important Negro Leaguer (except for Jackie Robinson), but the information on him makes it evident that he wasn’t really at the top of the line of Negro League first basemen. The second problem is that Mule Suttles spent a lot of time in the outfield. But it was common for Negro League players to do “double duty” in the field, so Suttles at first isn’t actually a bad idea.

2nd Base: Newt Allen, Bingo DeMoss. I think I had more trouble settling on the second basemen than on any other position (OK, maybe pitcher). First, I wanted to put Grant in, but just couldn’t because of the problems mentioned above. I also think it might be the weakest position in Negro League play. The list of truly great players here is awfully short. I think these two are probably the best, but I could be talked into someone else.

3rd Base: Ray Dandridge, Judy Johnson. Again an easy pick. There seems to be universal agreement that Dandridge was a fielder unlike any other in the history of the Negro Leagues, and that Johnson could outhit anyone who played the position. Who am I to argue with universal agreement?

Shortstop: John Henry Lloyd, Willie Wells. Lloyd was an easy pick. If Honus Wagner, the greatest shortstop who ever shortstopped, says he’s pleased to be compared with Lloyd, I’m gonna take him at his word. Wells was also pretty easy. Again there seems to be a consensus among the sources that he was a terrific shortstop.

Outfield: Cool Papa Bell, Willard Brown, Oscar Charleston, Martin DiHigo, Turkey Stearnes, Christobal Torriente. First, I didn’t worry about getting two each Right, Center, and Left. I ended up with two Right Fielders (Brown, DiHigo), one in Left (Stearnes), and the rest are Center Fielders. One of the things about studying and researching for this list is how quickly you find out Bell is seriously overrated. Now I don’t mean to imply Bell wasn’t a heck of a ballplayer; he was. He may have been the very best Negro League outfielder ever. But there seems to be this idea that he was just head and shoulders above the others (Charleston and Torriente). From what I read, I just don’t see that. Maybe he was better, but if so not by much. Certainly he wasn’t better by the amount a lot of people seem to want to think. It reminds me of what I call the “Derek Jeter Aura”. Is Jeter the best shortstop who started his career in the last 15 or so years? Yes. Is he the  greatest since the position was invented (as some would have us believe)?  Not even close, but try telling that to legions of his fans. And Bell seems to be running through that same situation. Personally, I think Charleston was better (and again that’s a personal opinion, not bolstered by much in the way of facts) and I’m not sure that DiHigo wasn’t the finest Negro League outfielder of the lot (or maybe he wasn’t, it’s tough to tell). I am fairly sure that DiHigo is the most under appreciated of the lot.

Pitcher: Ray Brown, Andy Cooper, Leon Day, Bill Foster, Luis Mendez, Satchel Paige, Joe Rogan, Hilton Smith. This may have been the hardest of the lists to determine. First, there aren’t a lot of really good left-handed pitchers in the Negro Leagues, so finding two (and one-quarter of the list being left-handed didn’t seem unreasonable) became a pain. Next, there were more than six righty’s that had to be considered. I hated to leave any off, but this list is my best guess.

Manager: Rube Foster. OK, he had to be here somewhere. He seems to have been a better pitcher than manager and a better manager than executive, but the founder of the Negro Leagues ought to be here.

Owner:  Cum Posey. I said that both second and pitching caused me the most problem. That’s true of players, but finding the best owner to put on the team was almost a nightmare. Who do you take? J.L. Wilkinson owned the most famous team (the Monarchs), Effa Manley of Newark was probably the most famous owner, Gus Greenlee owned the best team (the Crawfords). I looked at all of them and chose Posey, the man who owned the Grays. I think the Grays were the most consistantly successful team in the late 1930s and throughout the 1940s. I decided that made Posey the owner.

One of a kind: Double Duty Radcliffe. Radcliffe was known to pitch one game of a double-header, then catch the other game. You have to be kidding me. 

Post Negro League Career: Charley Pride. One of the great things about being married to my wife is that every morning I get to “Kiss an Angel Good Morning.” Now I may be wrong about this, but “Just Between You and Me,” as far as I can tell, Pride had the best non-sports related career of any Negro Leaguer.

A Charley Pride baseball card

The musical information shown here tells me this card is a fake, but I just couldn’t resist putting it up for show and tell.

Here’s hoping you’ve learned something from this sojourn into the Negro Leagues and black baseball in general. Failing that, I hope you enjoyed them. With the end of Black History Month, I’ll think I’ll take up something else.

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15 Responses to “My Best Negro League Roster”

  1. William Miller Says:

    Very nice series. You got me thinking about things I hadn’t considered in a long time, if ever. There’s a kind of tragic romance about the Negro Leagues — what might have been vs. what was — that makes this topic so fascinating. Your evaluations throughout the series were, I think, as fair and objective as they could be. I wish I could have attended a Negro League game. At the same time, I would have felt a little guilty sitting there, knowing that the primary reason for the existence of the Negro Leagues was due to white racism.
    Thanks for all the fine posts on this topic, Bill

  2. The Baseball Idiot Says:

    I agree with you about Charleston over Bell. I think Bell was good, but it’s Paige’s stories about him that make him seem better than he really was.

    Not to impinge on your list, but how about adding Moses Fleetwood as the bullpen catcher. He should get some love in there.

  3. verdun2 Says:

    As mentioned above, I excluded Moses Fleetwood Walker because he played prior to the 1890s. But bullpen catcher is a great idea. Maybe I could put Frank Grant and Buck O’Neill as the base coaches (O’Neill at third).
    v

  4. Kevin Graham Says:

    V,
    Greta stuff. What did you use as a primary source? Is there a book or a website I could check out?

    Kevin

    • verdun2 Says:

      Lots of books available. Almost everyone of these guys has a bio (and a few have autobios) that you can find.
      Books I particularly liked:
      Laurence Hogan–Shades of Glory
      Neal Lanctot–Negro League Baseball
      Robert Peterson–Only the Ball was White
      James A. Riley–Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues
      Also a number of websites. Two good ones are the Negro League Hall of Fame site and the Negro League Baseball Players Association.
      v

  5. Michael Javier Says:

    Great to see a discussion on the Negro Leagues that I have become a huge fan of via extended research over the past year and a half. As to the team, I would add the name of Smokey Joe Williams to the pitching discussion, as well as Slim Jones and John Donaldson. In regard to Cool Pappa Bell, I don’t think he was even in the top five outfielders based on what I have read and opined. Certainly Charleston was probably the best, with Turkey Stearns right there, and I concur that Dihigo is the most overlooked- in fact he would be my pick at second base if picking a real team. Also it is obvious Torriente was dominant in his era, and Wild Bill Wright combined power and speed and a powerful, if somewhat erratic arm, that would make him superior to Bell in my opinion. Then of course there is the very short but spectacular career of Chino Smith to add to the equation. What a shame these names are not better known to the average baseball fan and historian!

  6. Klink Says:

    Nice job of picks. Here are some comments from my research of Negro League history. Smokey Joe Williams may have been the top pitcher. Many say he resemble Walter Johnson in speed. Oscar Charleston may have been the top outfielder. Some compare him to Ty Cobb… some to Babe Ruth. You are absolutely right on on most everything. I agree, Dihigo may be the most underrated. My top player though will always be Josh Gibson.

  7. Thomas Breen Says:

    I agree that without a doubt John Donaldson should be on your list.
    All in all nice job 🙂
    I love reading about the Negro League .
    regards
    Thomas Breen

  8. Henry Says:

    I have a choice and choice for the top ones and for the second ones for the top fielders if its another player!
    Catcher is Josh Gibson (or Louis Santop *) and Louis Santop or Raleigh “Biz” Mackey
    1B Walter “Buck” Leonard or George “Mule” Suttles(either player or Luke Easter)
    2B Elwood “Bingo” DeMoss and Fielder is Newton Allen or Sammy T. Hudges
    3B “Boojum” Jud Wilson and Fielder is Pat Patterson or Judy Johnson
    SS John Henry Lloydd or Willie Wells(either for fielder)
    and outfielders is on my next comment!

  9. Enrique Says:

    For my outfielders choice of the top ones and for the second ones for top fielders if its another player!
    Left Field Martin Dihigo or Spottswood Poles and fielder is Preston “Pete” Hill or Jimmie Llyons
    Center Field Oscar Charleston or james “Cool Papa” Bell(either could be the fielder or Jelly “Bean” Gardner or Rap Dixon)
    Right Field Christobel Torriente or Chino Smith and fielder is Christobel Torriente too or Ted Page
    and for others one for each of the infielders and the outfielders and top fielders for each!

  10. Enrique Says:

    For my pitchers choice for the top ones and for the second ones for top fielders if its another player!

    Righthanded Pitcher is a sure great choice “Smokey” Joe Williams
    2nd Satchel Paige
    3rd Andrew Foster
    And for Fielder right handed pitcher either one!

    Lefthanded Pitcher John Donaldson
    2nd Dave Brown
    And fielder Willie Foster or either pitcher

    the second pitchers(bench or starters)
    1st Leon Day
    2nd Frank Wickware
    3rd’Cannonball” Dick Redding
    Fielder Leon Day or Theodore trent or either one
    For left-hnaded pitchers is none and its either righthanded pitcher or left-handed pitcher
    1st Jose Mendez
    2nd Martin Dihigo
    relief or extra starters Slim Jones 2nd Manuel “Cocaine” Garcia
    3rd Rudy Ortiz 4th Bill Jackman 5th Luis Salazar 6th Sam Streeter
    That is it for those categories or list!

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