Lou Whitaker
The Hall of Fame has announced the nominees for the 2019 Modern Era Veteran’s Committee. The vote will be 8 December. Here’s the list:
Dwight Evans
Steve Garvey
Tommy John
Don Mattingly
Thuman Munson
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Ted Simmons
Lou Whitaker
and executive Marvin Miller
More later.
With the contributors and everyday players out-of-the-way, it’s time to look at the pitchers appearing on the ballot.
Tommy John is known more for the surgery named for him than for his pitching. That’s a shame, because he was very good. Primarily a ground ball pitcher he won 288 games, lost 231, had an ERA of 3.34 (ERA+ 111), 2245 strikeouts, a 1.283 WHIP, and 62.3 WAR. He went to three World Series’ (losing all 3), and is perhaps most famous in Series play for being pulled at a critical time in game six of the 1981 Series. His team subsequently lost both the game and the Series.
Jack Morris unlike John, is known primarily for a World Series win–game 7 in 1991. It is frequently considered the second greatest pitching performance in a World Series game (behind Larsen in 1956). But Morris more than a single game. He led all pitchers in wins in the 1980s, had a no-hitter on national television, led his team to the World Series in 1984, 1991, and 1992, begin MVP in the middle one. For a career he went 254-186 with a 3.90 ERA (ERA+ 105), 2478 strikeouts, a 1.296 WHIP. and 43.8 WAR.
Luis Tiant was something of an enigma. He started his career strong, then faltered in the middle before coming back strong and leading the Red Sox to a World Series (which they lost). He won an ERA title in is fifth season, then had four terrible seasons. In 1972 he won another ERA title and pitched effectively through 1980. For his career he was 229-172 with a 3.30 ERA (ERA+ of 114) with 2416 strikeouts, a 1.199 WHIP, and 66.1 WAR.
At this point I have one vote left (of five). Frankly, I’d have little problem with any of these three reaching the Hall of Fame, although if I had my choice, I’d take Dr. Frank Jobe, the man who created Tommy John surgery. His pioneering work has saved a lot of pitching careers. I’m also aware that a high ERA is going to be a problem for Andy Pettitte (as will the steroid allegations) when he becomes eligible. The same problem also plagues Wes Ferrell and Mel Harder, two excellent pitchers of the 1930s. A vote for Morris might cut away some of that stigma and help each of the three. Tiant has the best ERA, WHIP, and WAR.
I think I’ll hold this vote for Dr. Jobe. Maybe he’ll show up soon.
The latest iteration of the Veteran’s Committee for the Hall of Fame just released the ballot for the “Modern Era” Committee (that’s the most recent retirees). Here they are in the order that shows up on the Hall of Fame website (it’s alphabetical):
Steve Garvey
Tommy John
Don Mattingly
Marvin Miller
Jack Morris
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Ted Simmons
Luis Tiant
Alan Trammell
Committee members will vote in December and are allowed to vote for up to five people.
Commentary to follow.
Just saw on NBC News website that Dr. Frank Jobe died yesterday at age 88. He invented “Tommy John” surgery, thus saving the career of countless pitchers. Back in 1974 he tried the procedure on Dodgers pitcher Tommy John and John went on to 14 more years in the Major Leagues. As one of the single most impactful baseball men of my lifetime, he should be considered for induction into the Hall of Fame. RIP, Dr. Jobe.
Quiz
If you look at the 2014 (the date the players are inducted, not the date the committee votes) Veteran’s Committee Ballot, there are two pitchers on the list. One was a starter, the other a reliever. Here’s a look at both (alphabetically).
Tommy John. That’s not a ballplayer, that’s a surgery, isn’t it? And that in many ways is the problem with Tommy John the player. Great pitchers have hooks. Sandy Koufax won five consecutive ERA titles. Cy Young won 500 plus games. Nolan Ryan struck out a gazillion batters. Tommy John had surgery. When your greatest hook is that you had your arm fixed, your Hall of Fame case takes a shot across the bow. Having said all that, let me remind you that John was a very good pitcher. He started with Cleveland in the mid-1960s, didn’t do much, was sent to Chicago (the White Sox, not the Cubs) and teamed with Gary Peters as the next great left-handed duo. Well, Peters got hurt, and so did John and the ChiSox didn’t do much. John won a high of 14 games with Chicago, had one ERA under two (1.98) and ended up traded to the Dodgers. He missed all of 1975 due to the surgery he made famous. He came back in 1976, went 10-11, then won 20 for the first time in 1977. He joked he was 34, but his arm was only two. He had another good year with LA, then went to the Yankees. He won 20 games two times, then was traded to the Angels. He had one year at Oakland, then ended up back with New York finishing his career in 1989.
For his career, John was 288-231 (.555 winning percentage), had an ERA of 3.34, and had 46 shutouts. He walked 1259 batters, struck out 2245, gave up 4783 hits, all in 4710 inning pitched. His WHIP is 1.283 and his ERA+ is 111. A sinker ball pitcher who threw a ton of ground balls, his high in strikeouts was only 138, which he did twice. He played in postseason five times, going 6-3 with two wins and one loss coming in the World Series. He was lifted early in game six of the 1981 World Series and his replacement gave up the losing runs. It was the deciding game of the Series. In three World Series appearances, his team never won.
The other pitcher on this year’s ballot is Dan Quisenberry, the Kansas City reliever. He was a right-handed closer who got to KC in 1979. He took the closer’s role the next season and led the Royals in saves for the next six seasons. He led the American League in saves five times, four in a row, which is still the record (it ties Bruce Sutter who did it in the National League). By way of comparison, Mariano Rivera only led the AL only three times. He started poorly in 1986, did worse in 1987, and in 1988 was traded to St. Louis. No longer the closer, he pitched through 1989 with the Cards, then went to San Francisco. He got into five games, tore his rotator cuff and retired. He wrote poetry in retirement and died of brain cancer in 1998,
For his career, Quisenberry was 56-46 with an ERA of 2.76, and 244 saves (sixth all time when he retired). He walked 162, struck out 379, gave up 1064 hits, all in 1043 innings pitched. His WHIP is 1.175 and his ERA+ is 146. He faced 4247 batter in his 1043 innings, or just over four batter an inning pitched. He averaged 1.5 innings pitched per game, meaning he frequently pitched more than just the ninth inning. In postseason play he had three wins, two in the World Series (including the “Denkinger blown call” game six of 1985) and four loses (two in the Series). He picked up three saves (only one in the World Series). He walked nine and struck out eight in postseason (six of the walks and three of the strikeouts coming in Series play). His 1985 team won the World Series.
So where do I stand on letting either man into the Hall of Fame? I can make a case for both, and frankly wouldn’t be upset if either or both made it to the Hall. John has a lot of wins, is instrumental in getting five teams to the playoffs. Quisenberry has the record for most seasons leading his league in saves and is arguably the best reliever of his time. But both have negatives. John was almost never seen as the ace of his staff and Quisenberry’s save number (the most significant number, ultimately, for a reliever) isn’t all that high. So this year, I think I’d pass on both for the Hall.
Just looked at the Hall of Fame website. They have posted the Veteran’s Committee ballot for the election next month. Here’s the list divided into 3 categories (alphabetically within categories). All are individuals who played, managed, or were executives primarily since 1972:
Players: Dave Concepcion, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Dave Parker, Dan Quisenberry, Ted Simmons
Managers: Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, Billy Martin, Joe Torre
Executives: Marvin Miller, George Steinbrenner
That’s the entire list. The election is in December during the winter meetings. Make your own choices. I’ll detail mine in 3 later posts divided into the categories listed above. I know you’ll be waiting on pins and needles.
1954 Allie Reynolds baseball card
Previously I’ve given my thoughts on the everyday players who are listed on this year’s Veteran’s Committee ballot for the Hall of Fame. Now it’s time to look at the pitchers. There are three on the Ballot: Jim Kaat, Allie Reynolds, and Luis Tiant. As with the everyday players, each pitcher has significant issues that have kept him from the Hall.
With 283 wins, Kaat has the most of this year’s trio. In fact of players not in the Hall of Fame and eligible Kaat has the fourth most wins. He’s behind Tommy John and two 19th Century pitchers Bobby Matthews and Tony Mullane (and Matthews pitched for far back he never stood on a mound). Kaat also has three 20 wins seasons (only one of which led the American League). But that’s the only time he led his league in any major category. He was only occasionally his team’s ace and by this point is probably most famous as the losing pitcher in the seventh game of the 1965 World Series, losing to Sandy Koufax who threw a shutout on two day’s rest (that happens). Further, Kaat pitched much of the end of his career in relief, becoming, in 1982, the oldest man to ever play in a World Series game (I’m not sure if that’s still true). And it’s this longevity that is much of Kaat’s problem. His numbers look pretty good, but they are longevity numbers and many Hall of Fame voters like gaudy peak numbers that Kaat just doesn’t have.
Luis Tiant was always a personal favorite of mine. As mentioned in the paragraph on Minnie Minoso, Tiant’s dad pitched in the 1947 Negro League World Series, so his son had quite a pedigree. For his career the younger Tiant had 229 wins, putting up 20 or more four times. He never led the AL in wins, but did lead in losses in 1969. He picked up ERA and shutout titles in 1968 (the year before leading the AL in losses). He got to a World Series with Boston in 1975 and won two games for a losing team. In many ways his problem is that he has too much of an up-and-down career. He wins 20, follows it with losing 20. He has the big drop off at the end of his career that a lot of people have, but in the middle there are three seasons with less than 10 wins.
Allie Reynolds played back in the 1940s and 1950s, first for Cleveland, then for Casey Stengel’s Yankees. He was, according to a Stengel biography, Casey’s favorite pitcher because he could both start and relieve. Reynolds put up 182 wins with a .620 winning percentage. He won 20 games once, led the AL in ERA and walks once, led in strikeouts and shutouts twice, and went 7-2 with four saves in the World Series. Reynolds has three problems among Hall of Fame voters. One is the paucity of wins for a team that went to the World Series year after year while he pitched. Secondly, in many ways his replacement was better; a guy named Whitey Ford. You can of course argue that Ford replaced any one of the three early 1950s stalwarts of the Yankees staff (Reynolds, Eddie Lopat, and Vic Raschi), but Ford was better than any of them and I think that hurts Reynolds Hall of Fame chances. Finally, the 1950s Yankees teams are the teams of Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, and Yogi Berra, not the pitchers (with the exception of Ford). It’s not a team remembered because of Reynolds, and that, too, hurts his chances.
There’s the list, three solid pitchers with good numbers and flaws. Would I vote for any or all of them? Not this time I wouldn’t. We’re left now with the two executives (neither of which has an old ball card to feature at the top of the article). I’ll take a look at them with a few comments next time.
I don’t know anyone who claims game six of the 1981 World Series was a great game. Neither do I. It is, however, a good way to look at one of my obsessions, the effect a manager really has on a game.
Bob Lemon as Yankees manager
1981
Game six of the 1981 World Series occurred on 28 October in Yankee Stadium. The Los Angeles Dodgers had a 3 games to 2 lead on the Yanks and sent Burt Hooton to the mound. He was 0-1 for the Series. He faced former Dodgers ace Tommy John (of elbow fame). John was 1-0. New York broke through in the bottom of the third when Willie Randolph homered off Hooton. The Dodgers responded by tying up the game in the top of the fourth.
The turning point of the game was the bottom of the fourth. With one out Graig Nettles doubled. The second out failed to advance him. Eight hitter Larry Milbourne was walked intentionally, bringing up John. John was pitching reasonably well. He’d given up six hits, but only the one run and struck out two with no walks. Yankees manager Bob Lemon decided to pull him and send up a pinch hitter. Lemon decided that he wanted to get ahead in the fourth and let the bullpen take over. So he sent up Bobby Murcer to pinch hit. Murcer flied to right to end both the inning and Tommy John’s participation in the World Series. I remember being surprised at the time by Lemon’s decision. I also recall the announcers being stunned by the call. John was furious and you could see his frustration in the dugout. As an aside he was traded late the next season.
Lemon brought in reliever George Frazier to face the Dodgers. Frazier had been in two previous games, lost both, and given up four runs in just over three innings. In other words, the Dodgers could hit him. They did. They tallied three runs in the fifth to take a 4-1 lead and coasted from there. They added four more in he sixth and one in the eighth to win the game easily 9-2 (the Yanks got a late run in the sixth) and Frazier joined Lefty Williams of the 1919 Chicago White Sox as the only pitcher to lose three games in one World Series (and Williams, of course, was trying to lose).
I’ve spent a lot of time on this site trying to fathom the role of the manager. How really important is he? How much of a team’s success is talent? That sort of thing fascinates me. I still don’t know the exact answer to that, but this is one time when a managerial decision truly changed a game. John had done well in his other game, was doing well in this one, while Frazier had been awful. But Lemon made the change and things fell exactly as a Dodgers fan would want. Obviously down 3-2 Lemon wanted to take advantage of a situation and try to get a lead, a victory, and a chance at game seven. He can be faulted for taking out John, but the major mistake, it seems to me, was inserting Frazier. By the way, I don’t fault Lemon for using Murcer as the pinch hitter (although Murcer went 0-3 with a sacrifice in the Series). Anyway, it came back to haunt Lemon in the game and later. He lasted fourteen games into the 1982 season before being fired. He never managed again.
The Hall of Fame
Well, the new Hall of fame ballot for the Veteran’s committee is out. Here’s the list: Vida Blue, Dave Concepcion, Steve Garvey, Ron Guidry, Tommy John, Al Oliver, Ted Simmons, and Rusty Staub as players. Billy Martin is the only manager listed. Pat Gillick, Marvin Miller, and George Steinbrenner are the executives on the ballot.
This is the “Expansion Era” list. It includes players from 1973 through 1989 and owners, managers, execs, etc from 1972 through the present. There are some other qualifications that make guys like Joe Torre ineligible for now, but those are the key dates for people being considered this time. They’ve created three Veteran’s Committees now: this one and two others. The others are the “Segregation Era” which runs from 1871 through 1946 and the “Golden Era” which is 1946 through 1972. Remember you heard that here first. And it’s interesting that the National Association isn’t a major league, but by making the first period begin in 1871, it seems the players in the Association can be considered. I find that a bit of a strange coupling.
Apparently the three committees meet in rotation one a year. So any one on this current list will be available for consideration again in 2013. The committee consists of eight current Hall of Famers, four executives, and four writers. Unlike the writer’s ballot, which restricts a member from voting for more than 10 players, the committee can vote for any number of people they deem worthy of the Hall.
It’s an interesting list this time, with no player that is a certainty. I will point out that Johnny Bench, Bill Giles, Tony Perez, and Frank Robinson are all on the committee. This makes four members with close Cincinnati ties, which could be good for Concepcion. I don’t have any idea who they’ll pick.
But of course I can’t leave it at that. What fun would that be? I’ve got to tell you who I would vote for if I were a member of the committee.
I’d vote for George Steinbrenner. I never liked his act, but his importance to the game is significant enough that I think he deserves a nod. I do wish that Colonel Ruppert would get a try, but that is apparently the job of the “Segregation Era” committee. You gotta admit that Steinbrenner, love him or hate him, put his stamp on the game.
The second person I’d vote for is Marvin Miller. Again I guy I don’t particularly like but whose influence on the game is great. Maybe the Player’s Union makes a strike more likely. Maybe free agency makes the movement of players more likely so that you never get a chance to fall in love with a favorite player on your team (but then a lot of really good players have been traded). Maybe it led to “rent a player”, but it led also to player emancipation and salaries that made the Black Sox scandal almost impossible. For all those good and bad things, we owe Marvin Miller. Few non-players ever had a greater effect on the game.
The only player I’m sure I’d vote for is Ted Simmons. I think he is terribly underrated. He wasn’t Johnny Bench behind the plate, and being a contemporary of Bench certainly hurt him, but he was a heck of a hitter and wasn’t a bad catcher. His SABR numbers are a lot better than his traditional numbers, which may hurt him with the committee, but he’d get my vote. There are others like Concepcion, Garvey, Blue, and John that I could be talked into if someone had a persuading argument, but can’t see voting for them just on my own reading of the information. I suppose, in fact, that I might be talked into voting for most of the list, that’s how close together they are.
There’s one other name I’d like to see considered for the list, Dr. Frank Jobe. He invented “Tommy John surgery.” Considering how many players careers he has changed an argument could be made for giving him a slot in Cooperstown. Consider that, to use simply one 2010 example, Liriano led the Twins to a division title this season. Without Jobe’s pioneering work, Liriano doesn’t pitch and the Twins probably don’t win. There’s a lot of players like that, including Tommy John, of course. I don’t know that Jobe should be in Cooperstown, but I’d like to see his merits debated by both the committee and the public in general.
And finally, when the “Segregation Era” and the “Golden Era” vote comes up in the next two years, I’d like to see a couple of ladies from the 1940s girls league given consideration. I know there’s an exhibit on them, but it isn’t the same thing as being elected. There are a handful of them still with us and if they’re going to be enshrined, it needs to be quickly. Again, I’m not certain any of them should be elected, but I’d like to see the issue debated by fans and the Veteran’s Committee. It could be interesting.
Verdun2's Blog 